Speaker 1 (06:22.028)
Welcome to the PBL simplified podcast for administrators, where we talk all things project-based learning for administrators leading schools and districts. And if it's your first time, I'd love for you to go to whatispbl.com, whatispbl.com. And then you'll see resources that you can grab for your teachers or for yourself so that you can lead inspired. And today we've got a leadership guest episode on the books and you're going to, I'm super excited about this one. So you know that we bring in leaders from schools that are in our ecosystem.
And we might bring in a teacher, we might bring in a principal and every now and then we bring in a leader from outside of education. Although Dr. Josh has a lot of roots in education in his, in his family. So he's not that far off. And I think he's definitely got a great message for our youth. So let me introduce you to Dr. Josh McConkney. And he's got background in, in healthcare and the military. He's got 20 years of a clinical experience. He's been a professor at Duke university.
Ford certified in emergency medicine. And what brings him on is his book called the weight behind the spear. And he'll explain that for us here in a bit. but he's got this book and he's going all over the podcast circuit, all around the country talking about it and it's taking off and it's really an empowering book that talks through his story through military, through healthcare and fired up to have them on today. So Josh, thanks for joining us.
Thank you very much for having me on the show.
So I loved reading your book, I Wait Behind the Spear. Of course, we'll put it in the show notes. But I'd love for you to explain the significance of the title. And I'm give you a quote from the book here. says, when people ask me what I mean by be the weight of the spear, I mean being present, available, and part of encouraging the people around you, especially nurturing the confidence of youth in the next generation. And when I read that, I was like,
Speaker 1 (08:14.08)
I've got to get this guy on the podcast because that's what our principles are trying to do. So when you say weight of the weight behind the spear, can you talk to us about that a little bit?
Thank you. So that's my personal leadership ethos as a military commander. Now I've had 23 years of military service. I've had some very unique opportunities getting to work with special operations when you talk of tip of the spear. So America's best resource that we have in this country, it's people, it's our teachers, coaches, volunteers, and families. That's what really sets us apart. And when you work with special operations, these are the people jumping out of helicopters, taking down Bin Laden.
rescuing the Thai children that were trapped in that cave system in 2018. They have amazing confidence and amazing egos. right. They get that confidence from the weight behind their spear, their teachers, their coaches, their families. And that's really taught me a lot. And I've worked with some amazing individuals. And so that's why I titled the book. That's my personal leadership ethos.
Yeah, I love that. I don't know that we think about that because you've got a couple different metaphor. You've got a ton of stories that you tell, which is always fantastic in a book, right? To kind of solidify the ideas in there. But a spear by itself is a stick with a pointy end, right? There has to be a weight behind it for it to be effective and kind of empowering people. I think our heroes in education, right? That weight behind the spear empowering the next generation. And I want to give another quote from your introduction. It says, through mentoring and teaching,
we can better prepare America's youth to be the future leaders and heroes of tomorrow. And in turn, bring America together as we face the challenges of today. So as we're talking to principals today, like what does that mean to you throughout your, your career and the work that you're doing now, with this mentoring and teaching of, of today's youth?
Speaker 2 (10:04.814)
So there is no more important job when you talk about teachers and educators and the administrators, they're responsible for those teachers. There is no more important job than preparing our future. So some of it is a little bit selfish in that I do want to retire at some point, right? So everyone in this country, we have to retire at some point and we have to hand those keys off to somebody. And right now, the younger generation, I've seen a lot of issues with
lack of communication skills, like this whole, this digital and social media world. And then you had some policy, you know, changes during just if you take some of the COVID generation, if you look at Gen Z and just when you shut them out of their schools for those certain periods and they did not have that connection to like their classmates and their teachers and the world around them, that was really critical during their development. And so what I see clinically as an emergency position, I see the anxiety, the depression and unfortunately suicides.
And then as a military commander, I see that same group of individuals now that just come through and lack the basic communication skills and resiliency. Resiliency is the big key there. We can talk a lot about that later on. But there is no more important role than preparing these kids to be able to step up because, yes, I want to retire and they need to be, they are the future leaders of the country. That's our future.
Yeah. And maybe we'll go into the resiliency right now if we can, because I would like to pull out some leadership, principles and skills from you while we're on the podcast for our leaders that are listening. And some of it might be, you've got a great story in the book where you, heard from coach K right. he boils down his leadership. Right. And, and, and I'm not a huge, well, this wasn't really a keynote, right? Like you got to just hear this talk from, from coach K and he says that it
leadership style comes down to honesty, accountability, and ownership. And he's walking those three values. So maybe you can, maybe you could just bounce off of that, but I kind of wonder how leaders develop these kind of three key values. I'm sure it's different for every leader, but where does that kind of idea come from?
Speaker 2 (12:13.646)
So, you know, he talked about and then he really broke down when you look at accountability. So for me as a military commander, there's nothing more important. And the same thing for teachers. I think the biggest challenge for teachers that they have right now, my mom's a teacher, my wife is a teacher, they have not been empowered to hold the kids accountable. So the stories that my mom told me, she just recently retired. And what really kind of burned her out towards the end is that
she physically couldn't fail a student. Now we want every child to be successful. We want every child to pass, but if they've done absolutely nothing, they literally have a zero and have done no work, you have to be able to hold them accountable. And that's been a big challenge in a lot of school systems right now is that the political pressures and just, you know, trying to pass these kids along that that no child left behind act, I think from the Bush administration.
It made things difficult in that just a lot of kids were getting passed through and they're not being held accountable. So that's big. And then ownership. So this generation, the social media world and the challenges that they've had, you'll just see that a lot of them, they quit very easily. And so we'll talk a little bit about resiliency too, but they quit so quickly. You have to find a way to get them engaged and have ownership in your.
classroom, in your organizations, and probably for the younger teachers that are out now entering the workforce now that you're working with as a principal, you have to get them engaged very quickly and they have to feel that sense of ownership or they quit very quickly.
Yeah, I think at our great schools, you know, a of people we're partnering with, they're developing school cultures where there is ownership, right? The teachers are owning the culture. The kids are then owning the classrooms, right? So in project-based learning, we're connecting the academics to a real world problem. And so they're going to go out into the community and truly solve something, right? And maybe they create an art display that stays there for, for five to 10 years. And when they go walk by, it's like, Hey mom, Hey dad, I did that. And that ownership is a big deal.
Speaker 1 (14:23.98)
And it's never going to be an academic standard to teach ownership or accountability to kids. But it's something that we foster when we're looking at project-based learning cultures. And I want to back up because the other thing you have on Coach K's list that you mentioned was the third one was honesty. And I wonder where he went with that. I mean, I think we'd all say we should be honest people, but I suspect that it could go deeper.
Yeah, and that honesty, and that's part of like holding yourself accountable as well. So, and he was really big on, I'm glad you mentioned standards, because it's standards and not rules. That was his big takeaway was nobody likes rules, you know, generally, but if you talk about a standard and you're building an organizational culture and you have to hold yourself to that same standard, like everyone understands those standards. When you're trying to build a school system, you're trying to build that great culture.
you know, public school systems where, you know, not all public schools are equal. You know, you've got great administrators, some schools, you know, don't have that. You know, people watching this program are wanting to be those great administrators and they want those great school systems. And so you have to hold yourself accountable as well. So for myself, you know, not that I'm super busy, I have lots to do, but I will walk in and I will clean the bathroom every once in a while. I mean, my team knows that I will do whatever it takes.
for my squadron and my people to be successful. If it takes me getting in there, cleaning up some trash, scrubbing a toilet here and there, no, I don't do that all the time and I'm very busy. It's not, I wanna hesitate just a little bit there in that, nothing is beneath me and I want my people to know that. But is it the best use of my time to be scrubbing toilets? Generally not, but I just, just a few examples in there where Coach K, when you're walking through and you see a piece of trash on the floor,
Yeah, pick don't walk by it. Pick it up. Like, yeah, you're you're you own this place. This is this is your culture. This is this is your organization. Don't walk by that. Don't ignore that. And so it's all about standards. And then the standards that you ignore are now the new standard. So if you want those standards higher, you have to you can't walk by you can't ignore things. You have to hold people accountable. And that's where it all ties in on.
Speaker 1 (16:41.326)
Yeah, and I think I love the idea that we have to live those out, right? So like in a school setting, the adults have to live out that those standards just as much as the kids, right? If the adults are walking by that garbage, the kids are going to walk by that garbage.
Absolutely, they see the teacher ignoring that it's why should I take care of it? It doesn't bother the teacher. Yeah, I mean
Right. And even into mindsets, right? So we always advocate for growth mindset, right? Like we're, there are things I don't know, but I can certainly learn them, right? No one's bad at math. We're going to, we're going to grow into, you know, developing our math skills. And it's funny in our workshops, we're, always giving opportunity for growth mindset and teaching and talking about it. Cause if teachers can't have and demonstrate that growth mindset, very difficult to get the kids to do it.
I'll tell you one of the best ways to do that. In my organization, there is no such, the word no does not exist. There is no no. So people are asking questions, like, I don't know. That does not exist. How can we find the answer to that? Or what's the solution on that? So when you do that, you empower your kids and you empower your teachers and people in your organization.
You give them, you empower them to make decisions. And that's kind of how you work on the resiliency skills and things that we talked about as well. Another huge challenge that administrators and leaders and teachers have in education is the resiliency side of things, because that all starts at home. And previous generations had their helicopter parents, right? Just hovering over everything. Now there's lawnmower parents. So those lawnmower parents mow down.
Speaker 2 (18:23.398)
every obstacle in their child's path. They don't let them make mistakes. They don't let them make decisions. And as a result, you have a large portion of this generation that just doesn't know how to make a decision. And they don't know what to do when they encounter obstacles. That's why they quit so easily. So the teachers now have to find a way to build some of those resiliency skills in their students where a lot of that should have been done at home. And I think
Most teachers know that it's just not being done at home a lot of the times. mean, my wife and my mom will tell me that. So that's another big challenge, empowering them to make those decisions and they don't take the word no, it doesn't exist. Find a way to get it to yes or learn why that answer is no. Just a straight no doesn't help.
Sure. Yeah. And so project-based learning, we're looking at PBL projects, real-world problems that are taking four to maybe six weeks to solve. we might use the word grit or agency. I like the word resiliency a lot. we're continually looking at, so if we're to get rid of invasive species in the local park, right? Like we're going to try different things and we're going to find out that some don't work or some work better than others, right? So we're trying to build that resiliency. What are some other ways in your work and your organization that
that you're building resiliency that maybe we can bounce off of.
You know, so that comes from leadership decisions where, you know, when you say empowering people, what does that really mean? I don't micromanage. you know, sometimes could I do a better job or, know, that's not really the point. You're trying to teach them how to grow, whether it's like the students or the teachers. So don't micromanage. If you really have some individuals or a group of teachers that you're not, that you,
Speaker 2 (20:11.392)
or having to micromanage, you probably made a bad decision. So that's on you as a leader. So you need to take accountability for that. And you either need to spend some more time developing those individuals or you need to find some new individuals. So as a military commander, I've had to do some of that, especially when you're new to a system or you're taking over a system and you're trying to change that culture, there's a lot of those difficult decisions. So let people do their job. You give them your intent.
You let them know what that end goal is going to be and what you need from them, and then let them find a way to make that happen. Do not micromanage because they don't grow. And if you're having to micromanage, they're probably not the right person for the job.
Yeah. So let's stay there for just a second. This idea of, cause we love the idea of autonomy, right? And empowering people to do the work, this idea of giving them intent, but maybe my whole staff isn't ready for that. Right? Like listen to this, so let's go. And, you know, and some of our principals, cause we've had this, I've had this conversation with numerous principals. Well, I, there may be some teachers I should get rid of, but I don't have a bunch of teachers waiting in line. Right. Yes. Right.
So what does that look like? So maybe there's, you maybe part of my staff is going to be empowered and there may be a portion, like you mentioned, like I'm working a little more closely and maybe they've got some closer guardrails until they're ready for that. Is that fair?
Yeah. And that's where any organization you've got your hard chargers, you've got your middle of the road, they're competent, but not particularly hard chargers. And then you have your different variations from there. And that's where the mentoring comes in. So that's always a fun challenge as a leader is to be able to recognize like who's kind of at what level and then how do you get the best out of that person? We can't all be rock stars, unfortunately. And the resource restraints are very real with money.
Speaker 2 (22:00.372)
and human resources, like human capital management, like that talent management, you have to find a way to get the best out of your people. And recognizing what level they're at to begin with, is gonna affect how much mentoring you put into that and how much oversight. And then maybe you have some really hard charging teachers that are doing extremely well, while you now empower them to become the mentor. you have that tiered system where, for medicine,
call that it was like, see one, see one, do one, teach one, right? So you start off that and then, sorry, this is, this is my, that's my grandparents or the, the in-laws dog, by the way. So I apologize.
So I love this idea of mentoring, right? It makes a ton of sense.
Do you want me to pause? I'll put it in the garage. She might be barking a little bit. you want to? Okay, yeah, let me do that. Okay, I apologize that they're visiting so I don't have a dog.
Yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (23:06.542)
to 23.
Speaker 2 (23:49.242)
That's why I don't have it.
Hahaha
All right.
That's good. So if we can, if we bounce off of C1, do one and let that stand, and then I'm going to move us into change process and leadership if that's okay.
So Josh, as we look at mentoring and the change process. So when we look at a school that we're working with, they're going to be maybe in a traditional setting where it's very curriculum based and the teachers upfront lecturing. And now we're going to move to a more collaborative environment where we're developing grit, agency, resiliency. We're empowering our learners. It's really change process, right? For principals and superintendents that are listening. And that's difficult, right? Cause we're working with people. We're trying to get people to do new things that they haven't done before.
Speaker 1 (24:38.606)
So when you look at that from a leadership perspective, maybe what are some of the core tenants that you look at? If you're going into a new environment and you want to create some change in there, what are some things that you do? Maybe what are some things that you don't do? I'm not sure where you want to take it, but.
Yeah, so that's very difficult. So when you come into an organization, you know, just trying to feel out how stuck are they in that rut? Like how long have people been there? How much turnover has there been in the organization? And, you know, generally people that have been there for a very long time are very resistant to change. So when you look at changing an organizational culture, you know, finding for me, I had to start
When I took over my current squadron up at Andrews Air Force Base in Washington DC and had some two very senior level officers, were like Lieutenant Colonel's had been there for like over a decade and they were doing literally nothing. So, you know, having a sit down with them and just letting them know what the expectations were and what we needed from them for us to be successful and to get my.
my organizational change in place and get that culture moving in the right direction, I gave them six months and then wasn't happening and they're no longer with the organization. And when people see that even the senior most level, because you can't treat people differently. When you talk about accountability, it has to be senior level officials, people that may have been there a very long time, just like with a brand new teacher.
And I know there's different politics and things with running some school systems when you get tenured teachers and things like that. But when you let everybody know that even the people at the top are being held accountable, like senior administration, that really trickles down. That will help you move that organizational culture much more successfully. So don't treat people differently. Everyone's got to be held accountable.
Speaker 1 (26:39.822)
Yeah, that's super helpful. I'm going to switch gears a little bit now and look at mentoring of youth. So you've got another quote from the book, through our ordinary living, mentoring and teaching and daily life, we prepare America's youth to be the future leaders and heroes of tomorrow. So what's the idea of this kind of ordinary living? I think it's in quotes in your book. I want to make sure I got it right. like ordinary living, mentoring and teaching and daily life, what does that look like as we're trying to prepare youth for the future?
So what you do every single day matters. Like people really discount their roles in their own communities and building an organizational culture. Like what you do, just the person that you're seeing in that mirror every day, it matters to the people around you, to colleagues, friends, students, family. And so, you know, realizing that, that what you do matters, I think helps put things into context and you have a better understanding of.
getting out there and making a difference, whether you're volunteering in churches or schools or coaching Little League or even going to like the animal shelters, right? So, you know, some people don't like working with other people. Those animals are emotional support animals for somebody. So on the most basic levels, every decision you make every day has a very profound impact on the people around you.
That's a great message for our principals, I think. Right. We've got some principals that meet their kids every day at the door and just high five literally 300 kids. Right. It's just those everyday actions matter because it shows you're there. Right. You can do the same thing for your staff. Right. Like be there for your staff, go into classrooms. Sometimes the walkthroughs, we've got principals that they might have 30 classrooms to walk through today. Plus all the additional things. Like, how am I supposed to do that? It's like,
Getting in there for two to three minutes, leaving a positive post-it note can make a difference that those ordinary living, mentoring, teaching moments are super important.
Speaker 2 (28:35.118)
Absolutely.
We've got another key to project-based learning is bringing in community partners. So we bring in folks from the outside. We might bring you to come in and talk about what does it look to author and publish and market a book, right? And then we'll have first and first and second graders might write their book and publish it. We've had several partners that have done that. So we'll bring you in and how can we, how can we maximize the opportunity of that from a mentoring standpoint of bringing somebody from the outside? How can we maximize that?
Well, you know, just anytime you're bringing someone from the outside, you're injecting some, some new ideas and, you know, not having a big ego. So a lot of there, there's some individuals that, you know, when you bring in people from the outside world or just outside of your organization, they, they get like a little bit offended or they feel like you're encroaching on their turf or their territory, really trying to kind of set the tone and letting people know like, listen, this is, you know, you can agree or disagree on some of the ideas and the changes that are coming in, but
At least being exposed to that is gonna make us a better organization overall. And so trying to just coach people up and mentor coming down from yourself that don't have a big ego. I love to learn, it doesn't bother me in the slightest if somebody disagrees with something that I've said, it gives me an opportunity to kind of sit down and chat with them and explain my rationale and my reasoning. And if I have difficulty doing that, then maybe I'm not making a good decision. So just try not to have a big ego, I love to learn.
Super good. So talk to me. We've got just a couple more questions here, but this weight behind the spear idea of your book and reading through, you know, your stories, um, heroic stories out in the military, in the emergency room. Uh, it doesn't feel like that sometimes when we're in a school, right? But we're kind of talking about some these ordinary movements, moments and the weight behind the spear. So when you, when you think about principals and teachers and you think about mentoring and prepping up.
Speaker 1 (30:36.61)
know, youth for tomorrow. What's a message that we can bring to them or maybe principals should be bringing to their teachers?
The biggest impact on me, aside from just part of my parents and my grandparents, were my teachers. So that's why I put so many stories from the book from my teachers throughout the years. There was really middle school and some high school stories from teachers and coaches. And as I sat down and wrote that book, I got emotional at times because I really, as much as I remember those teachers, I didn't realize how big that impact was on me as a leader.
you know, I serving in combat, working with special operations and now as a military commander, I still pull from those memories and the people that had such that huge impact on my life and especially my wife and my teacher and my wife and my mom are teachers. And I just see the impact that they've had on other students. was visiting, went out to Seattle where my mom was a teacher for my grandma's 90th birthday and we just walked out to Ikea.
And she ran into two students that she taught over 10 years ago. And they sat there and talked. And I just kind of stepped back and just watched that. And you could see the impact that my mom had on them and what they chose to do for careers. it's 10 years down the road. It's really, really important. So I can't even emphasize enough how important that teaching role is.
Super good. And maybe just some advice for me, even since I've got you on the podcast, you know, it's kind of one of the sneaky things that podcasters get to do, right? Cause we talk about change process and the structures, the processes for all these different changes, like pretty monumental changes in schools is what we're doing, right? We're transforming from passive to empowered. The results are amazing. Kids are doing amazing things out in the world. Um, I think we lose that sometimes, right? The, importance of what it
Speaker 1 (32:31.01)
the effect that a teacher has on a child that becomes an adult that goes maybe to the military, maybe into accounting, maybe to be a lawyer, right? Maybe to do all these things. Just from our perspective as an organization supporting schools, how do you think we can best support these principals to maybe just appreciate the work that they're doing while we're doing all this other change, right? We can get lost in it, I think.
Yeah, so you know, just some big lessons like complacency kills. I've seen that in the emergency department. I've seen it on battlefields. You can always be better. You can always be changing and refining processes. You're always learning. That's why they have continuing education. know, things change over time and you get stuck in ruts. Even if you feel like you're successful and you're where you think that you always wanted to be, the longer you sit in that rut and the more complacent you get.
There is K in your organization, you're just not seeing it. You know, sometimes it takes a while to rear its head. So just don't be afraid of the change. Don't get complacent. You can always be better. I mean, nobody is perfect. You can always be better.
So good. Well, Josh, thanks for being on the podcast today. want, obviously we'll put in the show notes, a link to your website, to the book. What are some, where are some other places that our audience can find you?
Yeah, so on LinkedIn, you can find me on Instagram. It's Josh McConkey, MD, and on X and Twitter at McConkey007.
Speaker 1 (33:58.19)
Awesome. Got a lot of different stories to share in the book. So I highly encourage your audience to go out and grab that book, but thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for your service. Of course, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks for being on the podcast today.
Thank you very much. I appreciate you having me on the show and thank you to all those teachers and administrators out there. It is the most important job in the world.
So good. All right, PBL simplified audience, you, you've got a cheerleader, a supporter, an encourager here at Dr. Josh. And I think you want to go grab his book because it is that encouragement, right? He sees you. You are seen as super important in our country, equipping youth that are obviously our future and you're doing it. So we appreciate you go out and lead inspired.
