Welcome to the PBL Simplified podcast for teachers brought to you by Magnified Learning, your customized PBL partner. From over a decade of experience with you in the trenches, we are bringing you the top rated educational podcast designed for inspired classroom teachers seeking to transform their classrooms with project-based learning. Live your why, transform your classroom, teach inspired. Here's your host, Ryan Steuer.
Welcome of the PBL Simplified for Teachers podcast. The only PBL podcast specifically designed for classroom teachers. Today we have a PBL showcase, which means we're going to bring in a teacher in a school using PBL right now just like you, so you can hear their story. We do these uh once a month and the other times it's me doing a solo episode talking about one of the need to knows that you all have and we're just trying to bring the PBL movement uh a little bit of gusto, right? We want you to be fired up. want you to be inspired, encouraged, as well as have the resources, the skills, the courses, everything that you need. So, today we're going to be talking to Kyle Anderson. Kyle is the coordinator and teacher of third and fourth grade image program. They serve academically talented learners in the Granville public schools. It's a brand new school. They just launched this year, which is one of the reasons I wanted to have Kyle on. He's also their interventionist for fifth and sixth grade students during their win time. That's what I need time. Kind of that tier 2 Before becoming the image teacher and program coordinator, he taught fifth grade math and language arts. Also part of a three-member team of social studies. He's taught third grade and fifth grade for a real long time. He's done a lot of interesting schedules and interesting slashcomplicated slash a whole bunch of preps like some of you are feeling that right now. And that's why I want to bring him in. So when we're talking about with Kyle today, you're going to get uh part of his schedule which is complicated. Um, but you know, you know that world, right? Like you have those preps and it's like, how do you do PBL when you do have a complicated schedule? That's one of the reasons we have these showcases. So, you'll be able to pull some things out of Kyle's story that can work for you. That's why we bring them on. We're going to talk about the idea of launching this new school because I think that's a really interesting piece. Um, he's going to give you one of his favorite PBL units and of course, he's going to give you a success story from one of his learners in those environments. And we're also going to do a little bit of coaching. It's kind of a new process in the PBL Simplified for Teachers podcast where I'm just going to start coaching whoever it is we bring on. So, you might want to be the next teacher that comes on the podcast and because we bring on people to in the showcase in all different, you know, uh parts of you their learning journey, the PBL journey, because we think we can pull from veteran teachers as well as people are just starting with PBL. We'd be happy to have you on the podcast. If you're a part of the PBL movement, you go to pblshared.com pblshar com and at the very bottom you'll see a contact form and it says uh leave a question or share a win and so pick that and just say hey I've got an idea I'd like to be coached through and we'll have you share your story, share your journey and then we'll coach you through something. We've done this a couple times and it becomes a really powerful episode and for both the person that's being coached and those of you that are listening, right? Because you can hear some real world coaching happening in some places that uh you could use some help as well. I think you're really going to appreciate this episode from Kyle. He's an outdoors guy. He likes to travel and hike and bike and I do the same things. So, we we kind of connect there a little bit too cuz he's up in Michigan, which is just a great place to go and do all those outdoor activities. Before we jump into the episode, I do want to plug the PBL movement online community. So, the POC is a place for you to connect with likeminded PBL classroom teachers. Kyle's in there along with hundreds of other teachers, uh, elementary, secondary, and we've got on demand courses that you can take. If you're like, "Hey, I want to jump in, but I'm not ready to talk to people." That's totally fine. You can lurk in the private Facebook group and you can get all the different resources that we have there. We've got moderators in there that are actually making sure that the conversation's moving and that resources are being provided for you. But we also have on demand courses you can take. So you can go take a course on entry events or on community partners or on group contracts and then you can also get all of the resources that we have. So if you after you take the course on group contracts. We're going to give you a group contract that you can edit and bring right into your classroom. So, it's all those resources that you need for your classroom along with the instruction and teaching to go along with it so you know how to use it. So, go take a look at the POC and you oh, you know what else you get? You get three different conferences throughout the year. So, for the price of of a one-day conference, you get an in-person conference and two virtual conferences plus all the other stuff I just talked about. We want it to be a place where you're just flooded with everything you need and what you need is going to change over time. You might need the on demand resources right now and later you might need the community or vice versa, but we want it to be so filled with value that you just can't pass it up for. So for $275 you get a whole year's worth of resources and support. And some people pay that monthly via their personal funds. Some people uh get their principal to pay for that. We've actually got a freebie on our website that's the five reasons your principal should put you in the POC. So, we're trying to just kind of load you up with the ammunition you need to go to your principal and say, "Hey, I think I found something I really need to make PBL move." And it's not just a one-day conference. In fact, it's cheaper than a one-day conference. And we actually get resources throughout the whole year. So, we kind of help you build your pitch so that you can get in here and be a part of this PBL community because it's really, really powerful. We want you to be a part of it. So, we it was like, how are we going to do this to create a movement, right? It's like It can't be $1,500 to get you in here. So, we tried to price it at a place where we can really get the movement going and start to build a lot of momentum. And that is starting. So, come be a part of that. We'd love to see you in there. For the rest of this episode, we're going to talk to Kyle. Again, Kyle is a classroom teacher just like you using PBL every day the best that he can. He's got some posters up in his spot. I don't know if you see it in the podcast, but afterwards we were talking and he's got uh our PBL posters are in the act just kind of remind him of the process. So, he's all in. This is somebody you want to hear from. This is somebody you want to learn from and pull out the nuggets that work for you and apply them in your classroom. I hope you enjoy this episode.
Kyle, it's great to have you on the podcast. Uh we've been connected for a while now and uh you're you're always a great contributor to you know, whatever whatever platform we're on, we seem to find you. It's like, hey, it's Kyle. So, you know, know that you launched this year, which is really exciting and just appreciate you being on the podcast. Thanks. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you so much for the opportunity to to uh to learn and and uh grow with you.
Yeah. I mean, and I'm excited for you to get to tell your story a bit today uh with our audience and just for me to hear. A lot of this is going to be us having a conversation. People get to listen in. I do want to say though u just in case people are watching this on YouTube, we're recording and again, thank you Kyle for recording at this point. It's like the last week of before the end of the semester. So, right before
is that clear? Is it that clear? It is right. So, if you're watching on YouTube, you would see Kyle's like Christmas sweater is on right now.
Yeah. Today was uh today was cozy sweater day at our school,
right? And you're you're crushing the cozy sweater, but this is probably going to come out in like April. So, when it comes out in April, I want people to know that, you know, Kyle didn't go cozy sweater in the spring, but
Well, it might be appropriate in Michigan. It's always hard to to know what April will bring us. So, that it could actually be weather appropriate then, too.
That's true. That totally be appropriate for you in Michigan. Uh, which is fantastic. Um, I love Michigan, by the way.
We're not far.
What's that?
We're not far, I don't think.
No. And you know, we my family was we did I think you're from the UP, aren't you? Is that true?
That's where I grew up. Yes.
In your bio. Um, and we did a trip through the UP last year, I think, and just loved it. We had a great time. Porcupine Mountain,
we my my boys would go back there and do like some back country to some of the cabins that you can stay in.
Yeah,
that stayed on the list because you want to.
Yeah, that stayed on the list. We're pretty excited about that. Super fun. Well, hey, we're going to jump into a little bit, like I said, a little bit more of your story. Want to hear your school's launch story and some of the things you're doing now. Uh, but every guest gets the same first question and that's your why. So, what is your why for the work that you do, Kyle?
It uh hits on that quote that might be showing up elsewhere, you know, in this uh this episode and that that um I do feel like that the world that we're in is not the world that any of us would hope is the end point. Uh we're always hoping to make it better for not just ourselves but those uh that inherited after us. And um the only way to get there is through um understanding. Uh and I I feel that that quote that I shared from Jane Goodall, you know, she did it of course through the lens of conservation, but understanding um will lead to um the desire there to help and then action and that's where we see change. So I think that we're that first domino so to speak helping kids understand that uh the the world is wide and wondrous and challenging and um that we need them we need them to be active parts of it and um I I think that that our role as educators is is is so vital and so um if there's an opportunity to do some good in our lifetime I don't see another spot where we can do as much.
Yeah. Perfect. spot on. We need to get more educators in and I think we all have that that why. Everybody's is a little bit different, but I like how you articulated that. I think you just helped some people articulate their why why they're in teaching. So, give us a little bit of your background. You're in a school up in Michigan, but you've also launched a new school this year, which is one of the reasons I'd like you to tell part of that story, too, and we'll see where we kind of rabbit trail there, but give us a little bit of your your I gave some background at the launch, but tell us about the school launch. How'd it go?
Sure. Uh, we've been uh in session now for several months. We started in um later August like a lot of Michigan schools do now um so that we can jump into summer when it arrives and in early June rather than having to wait till midway through that month.
Um and it's uh it's not a new building. Uh it's actually the the high school that was here in Granville, Michigan. It's a suburban district um near Grand Rapids, Michigan. Um that uh in in 1964, I believe, was the year they built this as a high school. um and serve that purpose for its time. Um they built a new high school in uh around 2000. Um when I which is when I uh moved to the area um and then this was then repurposed as their junior high or their middle school as they call it here. Um and they used it for that purpose for the past uh you know quarter century here for the last 25 years or so. Um and our district grew in that time to the point where our elementary buildings were just past the point of being ble to accommodate any more expansions, let alone any more students. Like it would was not feasible to just keep adding on another wing to each of our buildings. So, uh they've now opened an intermediate school for fifth and sixth graders. Um and again, it's it's this building that's been used for about 60 years now in different ways, but uh this is the first year of of being like its identity as the intermediate school.
Okay, that's exciting. So,
it is
when when you launch a school um is it is this new chapter, right? Like every year we're going to have it's difficult to finish this semester. Like we know that that happens, right? But then you also have this new year coming, right? So we have these times of kind of a fresh start in education. And so what has that meant for you guys as you launch this school and you're bringing project- based learning in kids are learning differently? Has that helped as a new school? You kind of have this jumping off point or has there been some confusion? What's it look like?
Yeah, it was uh all very intentional. Uh the the plan wasn't okay, we need this new school next year. Let's just shoe one group of kids out and bring a new group of kids in. Um the principal of our school actually started that work about a year and a half before we opened.
So he was still serving as elementary principal at um a nearby elementary um for the the last part of that year after he was hired and then spent the entire summer um two summers back and then the next school year which was last school year um building the the plan uh building the staff. Um, all of our uh, professional development staff meetings were held as a new staff even before we were in the building together while we were still serving in our other roles. So, it it was all uh, I think done with with incredible foresight and purpose. And in one of those very first meetings, our um, our superintendent um, Roger Barup came in at the very end and just said, "You're going to do amazing work here. Um, I know what some of uh, the the visions are of of not just your leader but of you as individuals having you know gotten to know you as as as educators through the years. Um and this is a ripple he described it beautifully like this will be that drop at the midpoint in our our kids' educational journeys um that will impact them going forward but um I think it will probably change the way that other people in our building serving the younger students may think about how to serve our kids. And um I think that's so true. You know, we've we've done
not just uh building the the curriculum um but they've done so much culture building at the school and uh uh PBL is is a a growing part of that. Um my role before this for the past uh several years has been to work with the kids who are academically talented students in the district in grades three through six. Um so I was always the person they came to at a different building. I was a pullout program for half a day. Um so that have third grade students from some schools and we have we have seven elementaryaries in our building plus some other home school and um private school students we serve. So half those kids in one grade level would come one half of the day and then the other half would come the other half of the day. Um so that was you know four and a half days a week working with those kids and then one really intentional planning day. But here it's just the third and fourth graders who come to this building but the fifth and sixth graders are here all the time of course. Um so instead of doing it as we did before we're pulling out for a long period of time. We do it during the what I need or win time. Um, which has been um remarkable.
Yeah.
Uh the the uh the intention there is that they don't miss core instruction uh for uh supportive interventions. So if a student might need um SEAL support or speech services, OTP, um remediation in math or language arts, all that would usually be them missing something else in their core work. But if we build halfhour blocks, which we have done for, um, pods of four different classes that team together, um, so two teaching partners, um, pairing up with two other teaching partners for a group of four, uh, we work with those pods, um, throughout the day, and we just rotate every 30 minutes to a different pod. Um, and we do about the same amount of, uh, intervention that we would have before with that half day intervention, but we do it in 30-minute chunks, which to me is so much more effective. Uh they're not exhausted by the end if we do really intensive work. If there's any personality conflicts and with the the students I work with when you know they're usually the ones that call the shots in their class or have the the loudest most prominent voice. Um that can be exhausting to try to go and serve all those uh those those needs. Um and for them too to um to just kind of have a breather between our time together. Um and I do that with teaching partners. So each of those pods identifies one person that wants to uh kind of take on our unit content. Um and we we work together then during that win time. Um and I'm only able to do that on Mondays and Fridays. I'm with the the third and fourth graders on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Um but that's good too because then they have to kind of like take the torch on those days. And those might be teachers who are already a bit experienced with and excited about uh PBL and PBL adjacent work or they may be new to it but curious but really reluctant to try that on their own. Um so it's it's that seeing it again, Ryan. You know, where uh where we're kind of planting those those uh those little bits of confidence or curiosity and um it's blossoming.
Yeah, it's exciting. Now, I I've got to I got to tell you, Kyle, though, like some of that some of that's confusing that you just laid out for me and like feel like I needed to take a breath of somewhere. I'm trying like Mondays and Fridays. But what I love about the heart of it, one is, you know,
when you're you're a passionate educator anyway, but you're passionate and you feel like yes my gifts and talents fit into the system and for you guys it's normal but what I love at the heart of that was a year and a half runway to plan this thing right to get the right people on board to get those teachers trained
and you know we hear I mean it happens all the time there's a lot of variables in education we understand that u you know sometimes it's like hey tomorrow everybody's got to do PBL it's like ah okay but there's better ways to do that right so I love Especially if you just heard, you know, Kyle's schedule and it's like, well, that's complicated.
But if you've had a year and a half to plan this out and, you know, go through the research, run this through multiple tuning protocols, if you will, right?
Multiple stakeholders have looked at it. Yeah. So then you know it and you believe in it, right?
And we've got chances to to refit it every six weeks or so. We we have our um win time cycles broken down into approximately month and a half segments. So we're just ing up one. Now, um at the end of those we do, this is the best part, Ryan. This is for me where where the magic is. Um where we'll do a a a PBL um or thematic unit and then um get to the end and and and not quite wrap it up with those learners who've been a part of it. Um but build in some type of experience at the end of it, too.
And it could be some of those showcase pieces. But
what we try to do is give all our learners then in those two grades, fifth and sixth, chance to do some um similar work to what the other classmates have done during the win time. Um and for the sixth graders just yesterday um where we usually have by sixth grade due to attrition with you know band, orchestra, choir, sports schedules only about 15 kids in each of our classes traditionally at that grade level. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Um we served over 200 kids at a time. Um two different half the day. So over 400 kids total um rather than the usual like 30 or some. So we we by a hundred multiplied our our our our impact there um or by by 10 you know the f the factors into the hundreds of students and they did a a forensic science unit recently. Um and so our our our our final then activity after they had gone through some of the different um learning experiences and and a lot of hands-on learning have some uh some partners in that um that you know work in those fields. Um and and helped us refine our our information. And um we we did a crime scene investigation yesterday. Uh a theft that they had to um do some gathering of testimonial evidence from their uh their teachers and then also go and um uh look at the forensic data and and compare it to some of the suspect data and uh interpret you know what what that might mean for uh exonerating others and uh casting suspicion on some. So all all the kids in sixth grade then not even uh you know excluding some of those kids that receive resource services or have cognitive impairments or um are multilingual learners. Every student was included in that.
Um and these investigative teams that uh that handle it beautifully. They really did. It was it was one of those those shiny moments.
Yeah. I mean I think that comes with that intentionality, right? You know, you're starting the school with intentionality at the principal level which tell everybody teacher level, student level, like we're going to do this with intentionality, right? Let's get all of our kids involved. We're still going to support them, right? They're your wind time and all these different pieces in your schedule. Support the needs that they have for sure and get them involved in these other context pieces connected to community partners so that they've got handles and context and that surrounds their learning and helps them achieve. That's it's exciting stuff. It's exciting stuff.
It is. It's the best work I think that I've able to be a part of in education. This is my, you know, 24th year uh as an educator. Um, and I've I've never been more excited to do the work. There you go. That's exciting. That's a good testimonial right there. Uh, I I want to get just a little bit more on launching a school. Um, can you just maybe give us one like if somebody's out there listening and say, "Hey, we're going to launch our school, you know, next year or some or piece like that." What's one thing that you're like you, hey, I you just have to do this. And then also what's one thing of like don't do this. We all have those things if we launch. Nothing's perfect. We don't expect it to be right. But so like what's one thing like yep you got to do this and then another one of like nah don't do that.
Uh this might be a little bit overly specific Ryan but um I I think in a broad sense belonging when you when you especially u when you launch a new school it's it's always uh just by fault going to bring kids from a familiar environment to one that's new. Um, so I think that a focus and emphasis on that is is is so vital and this is the part that might be too specific, but we've done that at our school through a house system um which comes from the Ron Clark Academy um and uh is it's a popular model where every student, every staff member is part of of a a group, a theme group. I'm I'm red today uh with Amastad, the the House of Friendship
uh with its roots in Mexico. Um, and I've got my golden uh peacock over there, our traditional animal. And um, that's uh that's all part of, you know, the the fun of it, right? Like the little signifiers like we're part of the same group together. All parents are part of that. All staff are part of a house. So that belonging piece um is so big and we we added some fun. I think that uh we have to do that too as a new school is make it a place where oh this is just you know the same old same old but have to shake it up a little bit in some ways to to make it um uh exciting for those that are uh are hard to transition over whether it's staff students parents you know they're they're giving up a lot of familiarity and comfort when they come to a new school so belonging big one and a part of building that belonging I would say is some fun um what not to do um I would say uh hold yourself to a realistic standard. Um there are some things that uh that used to come really easy. Um many of us were were used to u who have been veteran teachers um continually every year getting better at something, refining it.
Um and and to say like with with this much new um it's going to be a learning year again, too. So to to just I'd say reign in that expectation of we're going to do this all and we're going to do perfectly. Um, we can do it all and we've done a lot, but it won't be perfect and we'll learn from that just like our students are. We hope that they will, right? We hope that those those challenge points are ones where they grow from.
Well, they do, right? I mean, those those kids see that stuff. They know when things don't work. Hey, we just brought 200 kids into the same room and, you know, we can't find the lights. You know, the AV stuff. We didn't test the AV stuff today. You know, it's like, but how you handle that is a big deal, right? Can you handle that with joy and transparency of like you're right. Hey, Mr. Stoyer didn't do the tech the tech pre-tech check like I usually do. You got me right. And
yeah,
we'll get it set. Just be patient. We'll get there and then we'll get this rolling. Yeah, it's it's it's a lot of smiling your way through some of that.
Um
but but a lot of us Yeah. We we we have high hopes and dreams for for every experience and we envision it because we we we're planners, right? Teachers are are always ones that have our our checklist and to-dos and um just we have to just survive the the work that we have before us. We have to be um very meticulous and some of those details that uh that we didn't plan for that get missed it could make it challenging or some of the things that we did plan for that still don't work right. Um yeah, just just let a little bit of that go and lift each other up too. I'd say if anybody again is listening and is is uh starting new school it'll it'll come back to you. Uh but you have to find people who you know are going through a struggle and just give them some give them some cheer. Uh give them a um add a boy, add a girl. Uh when when you see that there's that uh that thing they are shining with. Um you know I see you you're showing up you know I care about what you were able to do today. Uh that that's gone so far for me just to have people in my my wing of the building who are are champions. I've got a music classroom next door and a art class room on the other side. So, we're very much like the enrichment uh section of the building. Um but but uh those are my people, you know, they every day are the ones that uh that keep keep it fueled up.
Yeah, that's a big deal. I think I think that's one of my bright and shining stars for the future of education. It's always the teachers um loving on teachers and supporting teachers and I think it's one of the great strengths of education actually.
For sure.
So, so in this new environment Can you give us a a a win from one of your learners who's in this new environment and it just worked for them?
For sure. Um I mentioned before we had that pullout program and uh the uh the numbers on that um are intentionally limited. Um it it's it's done through a variety of different assessment pieces and you know nomination by by parent teachers and so on. Um but there's always kids who are just at that Brian, you know, you you you see like that that that spark in them when you do that evaluation. You're like, man, this kid this kid would rock what I know we're going to do next year. And and that assessment that day is not uh not in their favor. Um we've uh I mentioned before served all the kids occasionally, but we serve many more kids often. Um so with those wintime groups, just the way that they're structured, we can do a full class. Um, and it doesn't have to be an issue of, you know, the buses can't get around to that many different schools or drop off that many kids or um, we don't want that many kids to miss core instruction. Um, there's only a handful that can really handle the responsibility of either making up some of the work that that's missed or, you know, they're already so far ahead that the things they're covering in class, they're the the ones are like teaching part of the content. Like, wait a second. No, actually, you know, there's there's those kids you always have.
Um, those are the kids we usually serve in the pullup program, but um there are so many kids, Ryan, who I saw either as second graders or third graders um who were just short of that that uh qualification mark who are now part of these win time groups where we're doing uh PBL and PBL adjacent work um that are a part of it and just like we suspected they would, they're thriving. Um like there there's one student in particular um whose um siblings were a part of the program Um, and I've again only taught uh for this my eighth year in this program, but um had all their younger siblings and they didn't qualify, which was for parents and for that student um a a personal disappointment. You know, they they they uh they were crushed and I was I was hurt for them because they're they're some of those, you know, parents that are always there every event. Um you know, always the one with this time of year, the the kind the kind card or thoughtful personalized gift and um you know when they got the chance to do part of this uh just the realization like wait this is kind of like that that image work that so and so did or didn't they do the same thing or or you know explore the same topic to say yeah and we know we know you're up to it. Um that that's been special that that's been that's been great to serve more kids that way and um they have another kid um come up to me and say, "I know that I'm not in your group yet, but what can I do to to be able to do so cuz I think I would do really well there." Um and have kids set goals like that. Like, I want to do that that type of work. Um that's that's a win to me. No question.
Yeah, that's super good. Super good. What about um challenges? Do you have a challenge that we can kind of coach around or talk through today?
For sure. Um I think that even though I I I still receive both uh educator administrator uh you know quick hitters from you listen to the podcast um regularly and um have read the book multiple times over and life's a project again is is one that I've revisited since I first got into it this this past um this past summer. Um I still struggle with the um the early protocols um you know building in the time for the kids to get into the the need to knows um and then to revisit those regularly. And I think part of that, Ryan, is is just uh the fact that we're on that tighter schedule.
Sure.
30 minutes.
Um so if there's any ways, you know, if we talk about it now or if people share later um in comments or other places, that'd be great. But how to do some of that if not in that that 30 minute block, either frontload it, backload it, or find an alternate way for them to have those types of meaningful meaning interactions with
the the type of content that they know they need to be successful. That that's the one piece where I feel like
we've not uh done our due diligence yet.
So is that in the in the need to knows specifically and that portion of like a protocol there?
Yeah. Yeah. Just just uh making sure that we a do that well in the beginning but especially b revisit those regularly to see if what new need to knows emerge and to to service those.
Yes, it's Great point that you bring up, Kyle, and and I appreciate you doing that. I think we're going to work this segment, if you will, into the new kind of teacher podcast, which is what this is going to air on. It's going to be the Movement Maker podcast specifically for teachers. And I want to do this kind of work because uh I love that you invited our listeners in. So if listeners, if you've got some need to know tricks, tips, and tricks, you can go to pblshare.com. You go to pblshare.com. You can put it in as a need to know or as a win. Those are kind of your choices. But put some of your tips in there and we'll we'll add them to future episodes. And what I would say is I I think you're on the right track to to keep exploring this one, right? I don't I think this one's important enough on the especially on the front end of a PBL unit when you're launching because you want your need to knows be out there because you want all of your learners to be thinking through what is it that I need to know. You want to build them into these kind of curious creatures and like Trevor McKenzie's work around inquiry as well, right? Like inquiry mindsets just he's so great at just creating ifications, he says, or I think he just came out with a book with all of his questions because I I wrote to him the one time and um I said, you know, Trevor, I don't think I've ever read a book with so many questions in it. He's just say, yeah, that's kind of what we do, you know, kind of. And that curiosity, that inquiry building is it's super important um
because it gets our learners to lean in just a little bit more to everything we're doing to continually be seeking out
more knowledge. and more skills without us having to poke. Right. So I So practically what does that look like? I I just wonder if there's a way to even just in saving time because you do have a schedule that is definitely time constrained. We've had that conversation. And even in a time constrained schedule, I wonder when you're launching a unit, can you just have your learners have a post-it note or a Google form or it used to be a jam board? I think those are gone now.
They are. Unfortunately, a lot of people miss those.
They just sunset, I think. But there's some or Padlet is what we used to use as far as electronic post-it notes. Some place for them while they're listening, while they're intaking the entry event
to start writing those need to knows down. So, we're doing it simultaneously, right? Because we're trying to save time. And then maybe it becomes the exit ticket and on your way out, put a need to know on the right next to my door or you know, one idea proposed to know and have a place for them to put them. And then, you know, you can process those or you can have another student process those to kind of I'd love to have you have affinity map those to put them together you know because there's a great protocol there and I don't know if you've got time for that I would claim that the time you spend on need to knows is probably made up somewhere else because those learners are more engaged and they know where they're going with their learning and then the second point is that you mentioned is how do we address them throughout the PBL unit another great idea because really great learning begets more questions
Mhm. Right? Because I can ask better questions because I know more now. Right. Before I I didn't know enough to ask the right questions, you know, and my guess would be that you have some more advanced questions you want your learners to get to.
Yes. That's the content. That's the standards that we're we're hoping that we dig deep into every time when we we plan uh the structure of that unit.
Yeah. So, you know, you can embed them in an entry event letter with breadcrumbs and kind of hint towards your your content or it is this idea of like let's take time and it does take time, right? I don't have a magic time warp for you, unfortunately. Right? But what if you do take time to ask those questions again to get your learners to ask what are the hard content questions? Now that we did the entry event, we're two weeks in now.
You've done some of this work. You've learned some things. What's a really great hard question that you might ask, right? Ask your learners and see what see what they'd say. What's what's one thing that maybe even at the end at the end of your unit as a closing reflection? you what's a question you should have asked at the beginning but you weren't sure yet,
you know, and just find some of those times where you can have them be questioning simultaneously or tied into an exit ticket, but getting them to ask the question, even if you don't say, "Hey, I'm going to take this need to know, move it from the need to know side to the no side, kind of that protocol."
Even if you don't get to that,
there it's not nothing when we're asking our learners to create questions. There's really great learning in there.
Oh, yes. So, what do you think about what do you mean with that idea? Is there something to bounce off of there?
I love that idea. Um, we have in our um our set classroom here that I'm in now, uh, where our third and fourth graders come, we occasionally when we do our messier stuff or stuff that requires more prep have the fifth and sixth graders come to. Um, we have a wonder wall and they of course put up wild and crazy questions sometimes, but some reveal a lot about um, you know, what what it is that's kind of burning in them and I get to know the kids better through that. So, just having that space invites them to use it. But I think in in um imagining, you know, our our setup where we go to five different I'm sorry, four different fifth grade teachers and four different sixth grade teachers uh classrooms, one to the next to the next to the next throughout the days on on Monday and Friday when I'm with them. Um maybe just making ask, can we have one space near the door like you said for the true exit ticket as they're exiting? Um and just go and buy a a generous amount of post-its. I would give each of those teachers just say even the days I'm not with you um invite them to do that but maybe every Friday and that would give us uh logistically some time to then um review and then uh plan for uh next week's um content instruction. Um you know we we could maybe make that our protocols every Friday go and collect that and review that and uh and and have that be like the regular check-in.
Yeah. Maybe you kind of train, if you will, some of the teachers you're working with, like here's how I would use this need to know wall or exit ticket wall, whatever you guys like like a co to call it, but because even as a classroom teacher, if I'm not like say you're not in there, I always want feedback, right? So like what was what did you like about today and have you could be the the post-it note guy, but give give the other teachers some post-it notes to put on there and let them get feedback on that, right? Like how are you feeling today? Put an emoji on your post-it note and you know and So maybe you can give the teachers that you're working with, you know, a few pointers on here's how you could here's how you could use it when I'm not in your classroom.
Great. I I like color, too. Color speaks to me in lots of ways. And
um I I think that maybe giving uh different color for um statements or expressions, another for stuff that's just the far out the random ones, and even another one for the stuff that's content specific to our current unit. And just have that front of mind. by putting that as a a header for the the board and change that from unit to unit. Um they they like to put up, you know, wild and provocative things. So if we can get them involved in like you asking crazy stuff related to, you know, bathroom content, that's what they always do. Okay, if you want to ask who made the first toilet, that's great.
That's right.
But we got them to go put something on the wall and maybe next time they'll ask something that's more uh on topic, you know, uh uh how do we learn about um which medical tests are most appropriate to uh confirm or disprove, you know, our uh differential diagnosis. You know, they can get really deep with the two if they're just used to kind of using that space. I think uh
I think we can give it a couple different purposes.
That's the key for me, Kyle, with need to knows is that and I like this idea of letting it be playful even three out of the five days, right? But two of those days you might get some really deep, you know, need to knows from somebody right now. If I'm in your class, I have a really deep need to know. I don't know where to put it, right? So, it just sits with me and then I forget about it, you know, and I'm telling jokes with my buddies. But, if I knew where to put it, I could put it on a post-it note, slap it on the wall, and then I could do jokes with my buddies, right? But
I need to know just sits there and eventually dissipates.
That's fantastic. I think that that that has a lot of promise. And just thinking about the spaces that um that I'm in with those teachers, everybody could spare that uh that space. Real easy to set up.
Super good. Well, that's fun. Test that out and then let us know how it goes. Uh
I will. Yeah, we start a new unit um right after we come back from the holiday break. Two two new units, one for fifth, one for sixth.
I love it. So, Kyle, we're getting getting here to to closing up our podcast conversation today. Um you've talked about your passion as a a veteran teacher who's done a lot of this work and that you're learning, right? I love that you're learning. You're passionate. So, when you look out in the educational landscape. We know we have a lot of unknowns, but I want to mine for the optimistic. Like when you look out there, what are you optimistic about? The thing I'm most optimistic about is that we're still willing to um make space for things that are I'd say familiar, but that's maybe not the right word, or maybe uncomfortable for us. Um are artificial intelligence being one that's top of mind for me. Um, and and not try to be so constrained like we're doing it this way cuz this is what works best for me, but this is the way that our world is changing and here's how I think we can make this work within our context, within our classrooms. I see more of that than uh when I first got into the field and it was very rigid. Um, and this is the way that it's it's done because this is the best way to do it where a lot of the discussion now is um let's go and try some things be really intentional about reflection reflecting and uh looking at the data what does the data tell us uh how well it's serving our kids um and then um how can we uh make changes in our practices to best serve our students just that that there's that type of mindset um about all these these new things that are we're constantly bombarded with um I don't see that this with our new teachers either. We have a fair number in our building who are new to the profession within the last several years. Um some that are almost brand new to the profession. Um one that's the first year teacher. Um it's not just among those teachers either, but I think it's it's definitely the expectation, the professional expectation like we're we're all learning. We're not teachers and students, but um as Magnify has changed my my my language on it, we're learners. You know, we call students learners traditionally, but um you know it's all of us that are learning together and from one another and uh that's the way that things are standing now in my mind. Um that brings me a lot of a lot of hope for what will come after me. I'm at that weird time in my career where uh I'm not out the door. Uh I'm not taking that step. Um I I've got a lot more that I want to do still, but got to think about, you know, what type of um what type of things I I want to assist people in in in doing in their professional work. Um so they can continue it when when I when I can't when I don't.
Yeah, that's exciting. Well, let's give you a chance. I'm going to give you a chance for one last parting advice. Um in the show notes, we'll put um a few more details on, you know, social media handles and your school in case somebody wants to come up and visit. They definitely should. I highly recommend you, especially with this podcast, if you hear somebody and I mean audience member you do this anyway. You you're already doing this without me saying it, but if you hear somebody like, "Yeah, I'd like to know more about that." Um, you should go see it, you know? So, we can always connect you with Kyle and get you up there and, uh, so you can go see that. But Kyle, for you,
um, let's let's say that we did put you in front of a whole room of teachers and principles and they're all pouring their hearts out in this work every day just like you are. They truly desire the best outcomes and opportunities for their learners. What's your best parting advice for them on their PBL journey? You have to start, you know, the the old proverb of, you know, the journey of uh however many miles you want to go and and uh and add to it. It starts with that single footstep. You just have to start. You you you uh can't get into that paralysis point of this won't be perfect. Um or uh it's not um it's it's it's not going to serve me well to try something new at this point in my career. Um just have to start. If not for yourself, then to give other people some um confidence that they can do new and difficult things too. Um and that that was a big realization for me was that uh uh I wasn't going to do it perfectly. You know, as a very regimented type a routinized person, that was a difficult thing to try to to bridge. But yes, just just find the best the best ways you can start moving forward and do so.
You go just get started. Take that step. Super good, Kyle. Thanks for coming on and sharing. Uh love the launch that you guys have done and the work that you're doing. Super intentional, reflective, uh intentional reflective work. It it just gets better, right? Like you guys be better in the new year, you'll be better next year. You
have a whole summer to to sharpen the saw
and uh and be even better. So, it's exciting. Thanks for coming on and sharing today. Appreciate it.
Thank you, Ryan. It's a privilege.
All right, movement makers. Uh you heard a teacher in the trenches just like you. Uh and he's exced excited. He sees a lot of opportunity and hope in the future of education and you're likely a part of that. So, get out and take that step. Whatever that next step is, you don't need it from me. Um, you know what your next step is, you've been thinking about it. Take that step. See where it takes you. Maybe you'll want to take another step. Thanks for tuning in. Uh, go teach inspired.
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