Speaker 2 (00:00.098)
Welcome to the PBL Simplified Podcast for Teachers, brought to you by Magnify Learning, your customized PBL partner. From over a decade of experience with you in the trenches, we are bringing you the top rated educational podcast designed for inspired classroom teachers seeking to transform their classrooms with project-based learning. Live your why, transform your classroom. Teach inspired. Here's your host, Ryan Stoyer.
Welcome. If you are new to PBL, I've actually got a different podcast for you. It's called binge PBL for teachers. Binge PBL for teachers. Just like you might binge episodes on Netflix. It's kind of the same idea. It's 20 episodes. No episode is more than 15 minutes and it gives you an overview of PBL. Does that sound awesome? That sounds awesome for you. Head over there. Like just, just right now. That's fine. Pause this podcast, whatever podcast podcast player you're in right now. Binge.
PBL for teachers, you're see those 20 episodes, subscribe to that one, and you can bust through those whenever you'd like. What this episode is, PBL Simplified for Teachers, this one's ongoing. So every other week we bring on maybe a guest or I riff about some need to know that we've encountered in our PBL journey over the last decade or so, helping schools across the country bring project-based learning to their learners. So there's two different kind of podcasts that might work for you if you're a classroom teacher looking to learn about PBL.
But that binge PBL for teachers might be the first podcast you want to go to. If you really want to kind of start over and see like, Hey, what are the big ideas today? We're going to be, we've got a guest episode. So what we do here is we might bring you in classroom teacher. We might bring you a leader, some, something that's going to give you some insight into classroom practice of project-based learning. And today we've got Ashley green. She's talked to your principal. She's been on the PBL simplified for administrators podcast.
and she crushed it. So was like, you know what, Ashley, why don't you come back and talk to our teachers too. So Ashley's had almost two decades of experience in education. She's a former ELA teacher. She's done curriculum coordinator, principal. She's done all the different things. And now she has her own educational solutions company, right? So she's out consulting. She's based out of Mississippi. She's working with turnaround schools. She's working in literacy. She's working in a lot of different areas. So I wanted to make sure that you could get some of her insights.
Speaker 2 (02:23.278)
because when we get perspectives that maybe are a little bit different than her own or somebody that's been in the same position that you've been in and now they're in different spot, kind of seeing that same position in a different light, because she's also an adjunct professor. So she's training, she's preparing the future educators and I think she's got insights that you're really gonna appreciate in this episode. So I hope you enjoy it.
And today we're going to start with a guest episode. So you were in the right place. Today we're going to be talking to Ashley Green, like I mentioned, and she's been on the principals podcast before and she was so good. We brought her back on for you, right? So I think you're going to love this. She works with a lot of schools across the country and you're going to love her inspiration. So enjoy this episode.
Hey Ashley, thanks for coming back on the podcast. I know this, we've got a whole new podcast and I'm like, who are we going to bring back? And like, we've got to bring Ashley back. So thanks for being back, being on the podcast.
I'm humbled. Thank you so much, Ryan, for having me.
Yep. Excited to have you talk to our classroom teachers today about project-based learning and what you're optimistic about. But you know, because you've been on podcasts before, that the first question is always, what is your why for education? Why are you doing this work?
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Well, I mean, for a while it took me a good bit of research and reflection to really get an answer to this question. But I finally realized that it's my calling. It's literally what I was made to do. When God was crafting Ashley, he was like, I'm crafting an educator who's going to go out and impact teachers, leaders and students.
and she's going to be extremely passionate about it and she's going to really show them that they care. So I was called to do it, Ryan. And so I'm just doing what God made me to do.
That's right, I love it. I mean, it's so good. I say it all the time. We don't get into teaching because we needed a job or a gig, right? Like it's a passion, it's a calling. And that's, I mean, that's who comes to this podcast. So, so glad to have you here. That's great answer. And it's funny, cause once you land on it, there is no other answer is there.
You can stop right there, because it's purpose work.
Right, that's right. All right, well, let's jump in. Because I want to start with encouraging practices. Because I want to move towards optimistic, encouraging educational practices. Because there's a lot out there. There's a lot of variables right now. There always will be. That's my thing, is that as things change, whether it's political or your district or some new mandate, that's the sandbox we play in. We're in the sandbox to help these kids. We're going to play in whatever the
Speaker 2 (05:01.452)
the rules cause us to do. So let's be optimistic and find the sweet spots. So what are some encouraging practices that you see while you're out helping teachers?
So I think the biggest one for me right now is student feedback. Teachers and leaders are now soliciting more feedback from students. I've watched teachers do surveys at the end of their lessons or when students are collaboratively working with each other at the end of that session, they solicit feedback from the students like, how did this go?
What was the most difficult part or what was the least difficult part and how was it working with your group? I mean, I think that is so important to propelling students higher because that reflective piece is important for students, but it's also extremely important for teachers. And it lets students know that, hey, I'm here for you. So something that I'm seeing that's really, really encouraging right now is leaders and teachers.
soliciting feedback from students. I'm seeing YouTube videos pop out of nowhere from classrooms. I'm seeing teachers do TikToks with students as incentives. And all of that came from the minds of children. So student feedback is one of the most encouraging practices that I'm seeing in today's classrooms.
Yeah, I think you're spot on with that. I love that idea. And I just got Dan Heath's book called Reset. We love the Heath brothers around here at Magnify Learning. They do a lot of research and they bring stories to help us kind of like to look at human behavior, right? Like, why do we do the things we do? And he's got an example in there of a principle that does that, you I'm going to follow a student for the day. And your answers kind of reminds me of that, like, because he says, get close to the work, right? And the work is the students, right? Like,
Speaker 2 (06:50.402)
We wanna look at student outcomes and we do see a lot of leaders right now going back to student outcomes. Cause I might have the best laid out lesson, but if nobody's picking up when I'm putting down and students aren't learning, right? It just doesn't matter. So I love that feedback from students. That's a great one to point out.
at getting close to the work. love you.
Right. So yeah, you know, even as, as teachers, cause we're talking to classroom teachers today, it's, know, how can we get close to the work and we're immersed in it, but then what about that learner? Think about just different subsets of learners, right? Those that really get school and maybe they're in the honors classes, those kinds of things. And then maybe you've got your learners that really aren't great at the game of school. They're not sure how to get points or how to win. You know, they have very different experiences, you know, throughout the day. So just kind of getting in that moment, you can't do it all the time, but
finding some time to reflect and say, what is my classroom like for that honors learner? What is it like for that student that's just been struggling in school for years? And just get close to the work and see how are we affecting our learners? That's what we wanna do.
think that's a huge reality check for education. And I don't think we, and I'm including myself sometimes, we don't realize how distant we are from the work. So getting close to the work in that perspective, it's a game changer. It's a full-on game changer.
Speaker 2 (08:19.694)
Yeah, you're right, Ashley. The intentionality is important. I think that's one of the great things about project-based learning that I've seen in my career is that when I was in the classroom, I taught the first half of my career traditionally. And I set up the lessons, I did the engaging questions, and I created groups, and I did all these things. But I did those things. I honestly didn't know the effect that it had on learners. I was just doing my side. Partially, I was a new teacher trying to hang on. I get it.
As we went to PBL, it just became much more intentional. Cause now I've got this workshop for all my learners. I got 85 % or less. I've got to plan that for tomorrow. Right. And suddenly I was just way more engaged and maybe closer to the work. Like maybe Dan Heath's got that pegged. Ashley, another piece I want to pick your brain on for our teachers is you do some turnaround work with schools. And that just seems like it would freak me out, right? If I'm a classroom teacher and I'm in a turnaround situation, you know,
Should I be freaking out? And can you give us like three keys to success? Like how would you have that conversation?
Well, of course I'm going to say do not freak out because I equate freaking out to panicking. And we all know that if we're in a panic, we can't think clearly. And when you're in a school turnaround situation, thinking clearly is step one. So don't panic teachers. It's really optimistic situation to change things around. It's it's so much hope involved in turnaround.
There's so much character building involved in turn around. So you're actually in a great position. I always say, either you're going to repent, turn from your wicked ways, and do things right. So I mean, if you're turning around, you're turning around in about face to go in the right direction. So that's already the first step. Or you're down so low to where you're about to launch. So either way, it's
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the end is gonna be greater than the present. So don't freak out because we you to think clearly. Three things that I always say to teachers when it comes to school turnaround is the first thing is culture. You're going to have to change your mindset and you're going to have to attach yourself to the solution. If your leader is implementing turnaround practices, then teacher,
latch on to that. know, oftentimes we like to push back because we are so content and we really are hopeless, honestly, because we've been in that situation for so long. But for once, just change your mindset and try to practice positive cultural behaviors so that you alone can be a significant impact to the change. The next thing I would probably say is communication.
Making sure that our pathways for communication are clear and open where there aren't any confusions, where if I say something to you and you say something back to me, I understand what you said, you understand what I said, and we're both on the same page. So making sure we keep those communication lines open during that time. Even with students, let's be transparent with them. Let them know what's going on. Let them know, hey, you can do this. Yes, this is our current status, but let's move forward.
in this movement. And then celebration. The only way schools can really turn around is that they start to feel more success. And I believe in celebrating even the smallest successful milestone, because you have to breed success and practice success in order to reproduce more success. So if it's a small thing, if it's as small as 100 % of your students were proficient on a bell ringer the first five minutes of class, let's take about 60 seconds.
and dance, are celebrating, are hit a woohoo because the more they experience success and the more we celebrate it, the more we'll yearn for it. So teachers, it doesn't take you doing anything absurd. It just takes you making the commitment to be a part of the change.
Speaker 2 (12:39.776)
That's good. And Ashley, if you don't know the Heath brothers work, you're going to love it because you're just lockstep in it. Right. So one of their big points is to find the bright spots. Like what are the things that are working well and celebrate those things? You know, what we focus on grows. So find those positive things and grow them. So you're to love them. So let's keep going. Cause I want to stay on the positive side. I love this idea of like, we're just going to participate in this turnaround.
process. I like your metaphor too of like, we're at the bottom. So we're just getting ready to spring up. Like we're getting ready to launch. That's a great frame. So can you give us a success story of one of your teachers that you've worked with that's thrived in an engaged classroom?
So I can't think of a particular one right now, but I would like to talk about how as a school body, we were able to thrive in an engaging classroom. When I first went to the school as the principal, they were, I don't know how accountability ratings are all over the state, but in Mississippi, you have your A through your D or your F, I'm sorry, your A through your F, and we were AD.
and they had been a thief for years. And so I had to approach the turnaround in phases. By year three, we were ready to turn around the way our instructional design was. And so at that time, it was a long time ago, but at that time it was called centers, right? Now we call it collaborative learning, but our PBL.
But at that time it was called centers and that was the initiative. And we trained teachers on centers and a collaborative learning in the classroom. So around November, I did my walkthrough. Now in August and September, it was horrible. All right, but that's okay. Reflection, feedback, attempts again, right? And so I go in in November and in third grade classrooms, it's smoothly being operated.
Speaker 1 (14:39.734)
students who are at their groups working together having conversation. They have come, they had to put conversation starters on every day. they had conversation starters. Every student had a role. We had timers, we had sweeping methods for teachers, which means, Hey, I'm a teacher. I'm at my teacher led right now, but I know once this certain timer goes off, it's time for me to sweep the classroom to check on the rest of the groups while my teacher does something very brief and their
they're capable of doing at the center independently. And I think the most rewarding part for me was that students were actually completing the work, but they had to be held accountable for completing it. So at a certain time, the timer goes off, Ryan, and that student leader goes to grab the key. Once they grab the key, the students discuss the right and wrong answers. And they literally have to elaborate on why they chose
those answers and just to see the students have aha moments with each other in class at a third grade level was beautiful. It was absolutely beautiful. And I learned immediately that if we are intentional about our practices, about engaging students and making student centered instruction our center of focus.
then anything is possible. And those students look into the next level and their entire cohort continue to be collaborative learners and they are still thriving today. So just be intentional about it. But that accountability piece, having that key ready, Ryan, for them to discuss and elaborate on their right and wrong answers and having aha moments without the teacher.
Mm-hmm
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Hands down.
Well, it's such a great story. I'm glad you pulled that one out because I think sometimes we're in a turnaround situation or we're in that DF. It's there becomes a culture of like, this is the way it is and we can't fix it. Right. You kind of mentioned that one point that there's almost a hopelessness. I don't think we'd say that, but we hear it when we go to work with schools with PBL. So, well, Mike, my kids aren't ready for that yet. I think they are. think they're ready for a turnaround. Right. It's like, and it works. Right. It's,
Until you see it, sometimes you can't, some people need to see it to believe it, right? But it's like, once you've experienced it, it's like, I know this is gonna work, right? So that's why we wanna share these stories, just more and more stories from different people from a lot of different situations, like this can work. Now don't wanna get stuck too pie in the sky, right? Cause I'm an encourager, I'm super optimistic by nature, but there are real obstacles out there, right? And I'm not saying we should avoid, we just shouldn't talk about them.
I just want them to approach those hurdles and obstacles optimistically, right? With a growth mindset. So can you give us a couple obstacles that teachers do face as they're trying to work through these change outcomes in schools? And then how do they face these? Like how do we get over these throughout our career?
I think I'm gonna go back to my answer earlier about teachers are going to have to attach themselves to the solution. And I mean, really attach themselves to the solution. I think oftentimes they get really caught up in the situation. And it's hard, especially when you've had several leaders. get it teachers, I promise I do. I've been there. You've had several leaders, you've had several initiatives and some of them didn't work or some of them were...
Speaker 1 (18:08.298)
It's the five
I have principles in three years, right? And it's a real thing for sure.
All right. It's like, you know, I give up and that's when you go in their room and do their own thing. But the thing about it is once you get a good leader and you have a leader who has vision and they have their solution based vision, visionary, then attach yourself to the solution. Actually become an active member of turnaround. I think the next thing is they're going to have to be a lot more proud about this position of teaching.
Mm. I want is kind of getting into it only to do it for three years so that they can get out of it and do something at central office or become a principal or become a coach. But the kids need teachers. We need teachers badly. And teaching is so rewarding and it has so many perks. And so I just want us to get more pride about being educators. I think that's another one of the obstacles. Like we're not
proud of it. It's not like pulling up when your mom had the old van and she pulls up in front of the school and you have to get out in front of everybody. You you're not very proud about that. But you know, everyone has built such a negative stigma about being an educator to where teachers have really, they have slowly chipped away at the pride. And so with my company, we take a lot of pride of instilling more pride
Speaker 1 (19:40.81)
into educators so that they are ready to take on the challenges. They feel brave and courageous enough to do it. Their ambition and their drive is still there because I'm prideful about this and I know that we can do it. And so I just think they just need to attach themselves to the solution and have more proud about it because once that happens, they'll get the power to change because the power does lie within them. Each and every teacher,
each and every student, each and every individual in a school district, our building, make up the culture and the climate. So if each and every person passes around contagious positivity, then guess what the outcome will be? Positivity. So I think we need to get some practice.
I love it. love it. You know, I can't pull the quote right now, but it's just this idea that every great leader that's out there that we might admire had a teacher, right? And multiple teachers. And we all know that it really just takes one teacher. Like how many stories have we heard? I had this one teacher in fifth grade that believed in me and it's enough, right? That's enough to change somebody's life. And I think I love it. I don't think we talk about it enough.
Imagine if had more than one teacher. Where would the world be? And not saying that every teacher is capable of reaching every child, because I mean, people mention people don't, but more than one would be an amazing, it would give us an amazing outcome in the world. I know it.
Well, so how about the quote of, know, it takes a village to raise a child, but honestly, we don't live in villages in the U S right. But a school, not like a school could be a small village, right? Where I don't reach all the students, but I know that you can reach some and I know I've got some that I reach and together we can do that. Woo. There, there might be, there's a book in there somewhere. Actually there's, there's
Speaker 1 (21:41.39)
I keep hearing people keep tell Ashley write a book. just I can't find the time to write a book writing but I'm passionate about it and I know that we can make the change we can be the that we wish to see we really
For now, we'll just keep speaking it, all right?
So you're playing seeds.
That's right. That's right. So we've got a lot of teachers that, you know, they join the podcast or they're listening and, and some, most of have already gone into PBL, but we've got some that are maybe trying to help the teacher next door move from a traditional classroom to PBL. So what are, what are some things that you've seen that help people make that transition?
So I think the first thing that you have to do is research. I love the fact that you have the bench PBL for teachers. I will be sharing that with teachers that I consulted. But I think the first step is really research. And then after you've done a good amount of research, start planning. Create a plan for implementing PBL and you can scaffold your implementation. You can do maybe 20 minutes the first time or you can do a think pair share very quickly for 10 minutes or
Speaker 1 (22:52.674)
Principals can take it and say, have a PBL each year. That's something each That's something I did. And the students had to work on it the entire nine weeks and they had maybe 10 minutes per class period or 30 minutes each week to work on it. But scaffold your implementation and the scaffold your plan. And then after that, execute it and take some time. Of course, you know, I'm going to say this and this is my psychology degree kicking in reflect. What went well?
What didn't go well, what can I improve on? And then research a little more, plan some more, execute some more. But for God's sakes, don't stop. Consistency is key. You will only get better at things if you keep doing it.
Yeah, that's good. That's super good. got another, another question I want, I want you to tell people how they can get some more information from you, how they can connect. But we talked about school transformation. We've kind of started there and that threads gone throughout. A lot of times we talk about principals launching this vision and the principal's job, the coach's job. What does it look for, like for teachers that are involved in school transformation?
I think the best thing that teachers can do is become active. Join the culture team, come to the strategic planning meetings, actively participate. The best thing I've seen teachers do is be an advocate in the community. Because when schools are in a turnaround situation, the teachers are running to the parents in the grocery store, community leaders in the grocery store. They're saying certain things or they're asking certain questions. But
Be prepared to say something positive about your school that's in its turnaround status. So be an advocate in the community and just get involved. And most importantly, practice positive behaviors every day for your students, for your coworkers, for your colleagues, for your leaders. You practice it every day. And eventually, others will begin to practice it as well.
Speaker 2 (24:53.784)
Super good. I love it. All right. We've got next steps. We can do this. So Ashley, where can people find out some more about you and your work?
absolutely. You can find us on Facebook at Green Tree Educational Solutions. You can also look me up on LinkedIn at Ashley Green, or you can always visit our website, is greentreesolutions.org. And I would encourage you to sign up for our listserv subscription because we send out a bi-monthly newsletter called Swagging Solutions. And we also have a yearly event called Tchella.
where we get all types of educators together all over the different states and they have a social networking event and entertainment, food and free supplies are available. It's a hit. So please, please find us on greentreesolutions.org and subscribe for news and updates.
Awesome. We'll put all that in the show notes so people can grab it there as well. Last question for you, Ashley. Imagine you're in front of a room full of teachers that are pouring their hearts and souls into this work every day. They truly desire best outcomes and opportunities for their learners. What parting advice do you have for them as they're on their PBL journey?
All that simple. Always keep the students first. Make sure you always challenge them. Make sure you keep them curious. And most importantly, make sure they know that you care.
Speaker 2 (26:21.966)
Hmm. Super good. We're to end on that. Ashley, thank you for coming back and sharing. This is an awesome episode. I appreciate you.
Thank you, Ryan.
All right, PBL simplified. Yeah, that's right. Bye teachers. Classroom teachers, this is for you. This podcast is for you. If there's something that you want us to talk about, you can always go to pblshare.com, pblshare.com, or maybe there's a guest that you'd like us to reach out to. We're happy to do that too. But you heard throughout the episode, we really want you to develop that positivity, that optimistic attitude that's contagious, right? And you probably have it already. What we wanna do is we wanna encourage that and let you know there's others out there just like you.
transforming education for our learners. It's a super big deal. We want you to go out and teach inspired.
Find their why and teach inspired.
